Thursday, November 1, 2012

Fishbowl #1: "The Fall of the House of Usher"

If you are choosing to participate via comments on our class blog today, be sure you adhere to the same discussion expectations you would if you were in the inner circle:  respectfully challenging your classmates' thinking, basing your assertions on textual evidence, etc.

There is not a finite number of times you need to contribute; rather, I will check to see that you are thoughtfully and consistently contributing.  If you wait to post until 20 minutes into our fishbowl or you post once and are dormant for 15 minutes, that indicates that you're not using your time thoughtfully. If this is because you're a slow typist or perhaps you struggle with the muti-tasking of this activity, choose another way to show your understanding . If lack of focus continues to be a problem, you will be asked to hand-write a response to our next fishbowl or to verbally participate only.


A couple of things to keep in mind :
  • This is an academic assignment.  It should be properly written and proofread rather than assuming the appearance of a text message.
  • If addressing one person's post, respond to that discussion thread.

93 comments:

  1. How does the massive size of the houses in "The Fall of the House of Usher," "Edward Scissorhands," and "The Others" contribute to the general tone and atmosphere set by dark romantic authors?

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    1. @Brian, the size of the houses impacts the way I view the people that own the house. Along with the size, the color and architecture also play a large part. I think it is used as intimidation for others who view the house.

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    2. That is a good point. The houses in the movies and story we read were very ominous and dark. All the characters with the exception of Roderick in his childhood were confined by the house and many of the unusual characteristics could be as a result of their solitude in their big houses.

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    3. I think the overall size of the houses add a kind of dark and unsettling tone to the setting of the stories. I believe all the open space and room contribute towards an unsettling feel to the readers and the characters.

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    4. @Brian- (sorry this comment is late, I had trouble logging in) I think the size and atmosphere of the house impacts the tone of the stories because I think it reinforces traits of the host. In "The Others", it seemed to me that the house had something to hide, like there are secrets that should not be told. Also, in "Edward Scissorhands",the house was very large, dark, and quiet, and then when Edward comes out, he is much the same. To me this adds to the intimidation and the dark theme of the story.

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    5. I think the whole open space and extra room in the houses add an unsettling, dark tone to the setting and plot, not only to the readers but also the characters.

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    6. Julia and Colin - You two have excellent points. I did not notice that both the host and the house in "The Others" had something to hide. But with Poe's story and "Edward Scissorhands," the house's atmosphere is very dark and hollow.

      To put it as a metaphor, the house of Usher is like a tree. As Roderick and his family stopped seeing others from the outside, the roots slowly died. The tree was no longer rooted in the community and it eventually fell down and hollowed out.

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  2. Does Rodrick die of fear at the end?

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    1. I think that Rodrick died of fear, shock and the fact that his sister died; since the house fell down at the end when they both died, he died because she died.

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    2. I do believe that Roderick died of fear at the end because I don't think the story is trying to portray supernatural events, but more just the psychological fear in our minds. I think Roderick was driven to insanity in a way, and the figure of the woman at the end was overwhelming to him.

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  3. Is the relationship with Roderick and The House a mutual one? Meaning one can't live without the other.

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  4. Class- Lets talk about fear, in this Gothic period, I feel that people are more in touch with death to avoid the mystery of fear. Comments?

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    1. I think maybe they are trying to make sense of death. Maybe not trying to avoid fear but more trying to confront it and find its roots.

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    2. In all understanding, I agree, that these people are trying to hide from fear by supplementing the idea that death can be found everywhere and they try to escape it, but they find themselves lost in there own thoughts of a darkening fear beyond all understanding of natural fear.

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    3. Monica, I think the people of this period are more in touch with death because they do not shy away from it as much. I do not want to say that they welcome it, but the fear of death is not as present in them as it is with people of today's modern period.

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    4. I personally believe that no one is completely unaffected by fear of death, but by exploring death, the dark Romantics familiarized their audience with the more intimate aspects of it. The more knowledge one has regarding a topic, the more confident they become when confronting it.

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  5. What do you guys find as the symbolization of the falling of the house in end? How is it related to the Dark Romantics Era?

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    1. I see it as the final blow to the line of Usher's. Often through the text Poe referred to the fact that Roderick and his sister were the last of the Usher's. To me the destruction of the house symbolizes that there is nothing left.

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    2. Some also postulate that this image represents the fall of the European Romantic period & the rise of American Romanticism. Consider, for instance, how the house is filled with relics of the arts--instruments, books, art. Theorists also suggest Usher represents the European Romantic period while the narrator encapsulates the American Romantic period.

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  6. Brian- I associate the grandeur of the setting to increase the overwhelmingly haunted aspect of the Gothic/Dark Romantic stories. Without this there would not be as much general creepy/scary feel as is driven when seeing this visual.

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  7. Mike - I think there is a mutual relationship because Roderick was dependent on the house in a literal sense, not figurative. It provided him with so many of the important intangible aspects he desired that he could not stand without it and, because of this, the house could not stand without Roderick.

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  8. Brian- I think that the houses are so big in "The Fall of the House of Usher", and the movie clips, because the authors are trying to show a dark and creepy side of each of the 'hosts'. I also think that the houses and the hosts are directly connected to each other in each of these examples. Therefore, the houses are large to show the emotions of the hosts. An example being that the hosts are empty inside, so the houses are empty and large. The hosts and houses are directly linked together.

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  9. Brian H- I think big houses have air of mystery about them. There is little mystery in a small house or apartment. A big house though, invites mystery,in that very little is known about them and this "unkowingness" so to speak, just adds to the suspense of the story.

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    1. Macy's comment above had an excellent point. Most of the host characters who live in these big houses seen hollow inside. The houses, coincidentally, are vast but have only one person living inside

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  10. The size of the houses in all three of these sources represent the emptiness felt by the hosts. Nicole Kidman's character in "The Others" even says that her house is neglected. This is mirrored in her neglect of her well-being as well as that of her children. Despite the fact that all of these houses are neglected, they are also quite beautiful and impressive. This goes for the hosts as well, though like Paige suggested from the inner circle, the neglect is causing them to break from the inside out.

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    1. Do you think it could possibly be the feeling of no/little religion caused people to feel neglected because they couldn't answer everything with science? Maybe writers of the era are trying to fill the emptiness with some sort of answer.

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    2. I think that, yes, these people are possibly in denial of the fact that science may not have given them all that they believed it would offer yet they are letting themselves waste away as they wait for the payoff. Characters like Nicole Kidman's, Edward Scissorhands, and Roderick may be symbolic of this, because it is this lack of ambition to fulfill their lives for themselves that has driven them to become the people they are. They expect things to eventually work themselves out even though good things do not necessarily come to those who wait.

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  11. Brian- That is a great point! I believe the significance to the great mansion the devotion to the intricacies signifies the startling of this era. The time period to create awe out somewhat edgy ideas and designs.

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  12. Class- What do you think drives a person to madness? It is evident that Roderick is mentally unstable, however what is the cause of this? Is it a matter of medical distortion, or of circumstance?

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    1. I think that Rodrick was driven to madness because he was getting sick, he had not been outside of his house in many years, and his sister is also sick. I think it could be caused more by a medical problem because his sickness caused him to see things and in the end, with his "dead" sister, he was hearing things and caused him to go mad.

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    2. I think the main cause of this madness is loneliness. As the narrator stopped seeing Roderick, he slowly slipped into madness. To put it as a metaphor; as a house becomes more empty inside, so does the host. When Roderick became very sick and lonely, he was at a point where the house and himself were almost hollow

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    3. I also had this question when reading. The conclusion that I reached was that he was mentally unstable because he expected to be mentally unstable. The thought of becoming like this drove him into the mental state that he was in.

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    4. I think a lifestyle, and living in a particular setting slowly steers a person towards madness. Roderick continued to live in his house which subconsciously drove him and his sister towards insanity. He never changed his lifestyle or living conditions, and the dark themes slowly affected his mind.

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    5. Living alone could change anyone. Like Cassi said earlier, there is a symbol of neglect with the big, empty houses. I think the feeling of neglect with Roderick's sister dying could have caused him to go insane.

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    6. @Brian- That is a great point. The author said at some point that he was Roderick's only friend, so it makes sense that he had been suffering and becoming lonelier as the years progressed without seeing his friend. I think it could be a medical issue like Annabelle pointed out, but I also believe that people can become sick because of emotions- heartbreak, loneliness, anger, grief, ect.

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    7. Really great points! Baergen- I love that you took the idea of society's influence and showed that it could drive someone to madness. It's very applicable in this text as well as the real world. Colin- I really like your point as well. A quote that relates is "You can't choose your circumstances, but you can choose to overcome them" and Roderick chose not to overcome them.

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    8. I disagree with his madness, he wasn't necessarily driven into madness he had an illness of a hyper sensitivity to light, and found himself lost in the darkness of the setting he was surrounded by. Not only was he sane, but he also developed a sense of logical outcome to what was happening, that he would die and he felt pressured by this thought and was left in loneliness.

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    9. @Blake- I would have never considered this had you not brought it to my attention. Although easier to conclude that Roderick was insane, this brings light that he might have been perfectly normal.

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    10. Try having a conversation with a lawyer. Politicians also do the trick pretty well.

      Jokes aside, insanity can brought in by loneliness, mental instability, and just an imagination that overcomes your perception of reality.

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  13. Monica- I think all Gothic/horror writers need to be in touch with fear and death. Their job is to write about people dying and how they die; one example would be the famous horror writer Stephen King, the guy is pretty dark in person and has the look of one of his characters. Gothic/horror writers have to be in touch with their dark side because it is their job to write about darkness and fear.

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  14. Brooke- As Shannon was saying in the center circle, I think that Roderick is driven, to a point, of craziness because of his sister and the fact that she is sick. Roderick and Madeline are connected, as twins, and because she was getting sicker and sicker, Roderick was having to take care of her. I think that it is of circumstance.

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  15. Class, how do the colors of this period affect your feelings towards the stories and movies we have looked at so far?

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    1. The colors make me feel almost depressed because so far there is depression, loneliness, and death. They are all dark and gloomy and I've noticed that most of the characters have kept to themselves and are very quiet and short with their wording when talking to their guests.

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    2. I've come to the conclusion that the Gothic Poets like the color black. With that, I assume that they weren't exactly glass-half-full kind of people. The colors reflect the mood and tone of their writing.

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    3. Nick- I think that the colors of the Gothic period, which are mostly dark, affect my feelings because I feel like there is going to be a twist at every corner. I never know what to expect, and I feel as if there is an undertone of danger and horror.

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    4. The dark color palettes present in Gothic texts make me think of shadows. These "shadows" seem to conceal fragments of Gothic text and I feel that there is always more to these stories than we'll ever really know regardless of how many times we may read or watch these stories because of them.

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    5. @Nick- I somewhat agree with Macy and Annabelle, that this period is very dark, and you don't know what is coming next. This is true, but I think this period and has to be looked at under different lights. I feel like in this period, people were more adjusted and acceptant to the idea of death, and don't try to prolong and avoid it as much as people in our society do. It helps me open my eyes to these movie clips and the stories that we will read soon to not assume what will happen with the context of our times.

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  16. As far as the writing goes, why does Poe drastically change his style of writing in the second half of the story? I almost feel like it's a big contradiction against the style he established early on.

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  17. Brooke- That is a really intricate question. When asking what drives madness itself, I would say it is the person understanding themselves almost too much. The details, such as Poe explains the details of the house and setting of darkness, are the devotion to these sentiments are what drive insanity. But it comes from one's personal understanding.

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    1. What a fascinating concept. I'm definitely going to have to think on that one!

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  18. Class- Do you think that the House crashing down in the end is symbolic of Roderick's subconscious "crashing down" ?

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    1. Mike - To put it as a metaphor, the house of Usher is like a tree. As Roderick and his family stopped seeing others from the outside, the roots slowly died. The tree was no longer rooted in the community and it eventually crashed down and hollowed out. By not tending to matters outside their own doors, they imploded.

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    2. The house crashing down at the end was definitely symbolic to Roderick's subconscious coming apart because throughout the whole story, they both were slowly deteriorating. It's almost as if all the events that occurred were just there to slowly build up the ultimate "crashing down" as you described. Both were bound to come apart at the end, and when Roderick finally crashed, the house went along with him.

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    3. @Mike- I would argue that is symbolizes the loss of the Usher family and the generations that had proceeded the twins. I believe that Roderick's subconscious fell before the house itself fell.

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  19. What was the significance of the glowing gas surrounding the mansion towards the end of the story? Was it just included in the story to prove Roderick's insanity? Or does it contain a deeper meaning?

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    1. I think that the glowing gas was symbolic of how cloudy Roderick's mind was and I assume that it looked like glowing fog, so it would be hard for us to see what was happening both in his mind and in his story. The gas also puts the audience on edge and makes us feel like something is going to happen so it is also some foreshadowing.

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  20. Does Roderick's sister symbolize his guilt of burying her prematurely? And that no matter what mental state you are in, guilt is an inescapable force.

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  21. Micheal- I thought the house took on an almost human quality. The way it shaped the lives of the people who lived in it. In my head, the house influences Roderick and his sister more than Roderick did the house.

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    1. Relating to the human quality idea, I found it interesting that the house was the first "characte" introduced. It was described with very human like descriptions such as "eye-like" windows and being "alive." Class- Why did the author introduce the house before the host?

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    2. Abby- I completely agree with your thoughts on how the house is personified throughout the story. I feel that the insanity afflicting the characters also poses as something of a character by the end of the story in that it manipulates them and (to bring in our vocab) cajoles them into a sense of comfort, if that makes sense. The way I see it, Roderick and his sister could have escaped from the insanity, though the insanity becomes as synonymous with their lives as a person might that even if they're in suffering, there's a familiarity to it. I know that in the cases of some people with mental illnesses, even though that illness makes life unhappy for them, in a handful of circumstances these people don't want to get better because they don't know how to function without the familiar presence of their illness.

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  22. Class, when someone says "Goth" what are your first thoughts? For me, I think of dark colors and people who are welcoming death in a weird way.

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  23. Were Rodrick and his sister 2 different people or where they more 2 parts of a whole person? They seemed very similar almost like they couldn't live or identify themselves without the other.

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    1. I don't think it is his sister but more of Usher and his sickness are like the relationship of Dr. Jekyle and Mr. Hyde. One is sane and a normal person but the other is crazy and makes them do believe different things.

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  24. The questions on how Usher and the house were different, rather then how they were alike. well the house changed and moved based off how usher made if/ was feeling. Yes the house may affected Ushers mood, and mental state, but the house is what he made it. The house gained power and control over Usher, not Usher over the house.
    The story in itself had very descriptive language, building a dark, dramatic and horrifying story in my head. The vocab helped show the setting of a scary, dark and twisted tone, that reflected on the setting, leaving a feeling of foreshadowing and the anxiety of something bad happening, always in mind as it was being read.
    i am under the belief the Usher did and did not know of his murder of his sister. During the story I began the thinking that Usher and his illness almost of two different people, like a split personality. During the entombment of his sister, i believe usher was in his mental disabled self, and was under the thought that she was dead, or that he was helping her; not fully aware he was killing her. But after the act, he began to realize what he did and the guilt intensified his metal instability.


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  25. Why do you think that Madeline came out from her tomb (the author says "some days after") so late? Why didn't she come out earlier?

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    1. Obviously she just wanted some good sleep. But really, I think that it helps contribute to the suspense and storyline. Without that time span, there would not be a story as well developed as this was.

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    2. I also think that she may have not waken up from her seizure for a couple of days; or she might have no been able to free herself for that amount of time.

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    3. Also, the time spent where Madeline was buried was a time where Roderick's mental state changed. I think this period was important to see the decrease in his mental state and his conscience and the guilt overcoming him.

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    4. It could also be symbolic of Roderick's guilt of burying his sister prematurely. His guilt continued to build until it reached a fever pitch and exploded in his sister coming out of her grave.

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  26. This maybe a little too much of a stretch but, is the name "Usher" symbolic of anything?

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    1. Michael- I was just going to ask this!!! Anyways to answer your question, yes I do believe that the name Usher could be signified as an escort. But in this story, it is a mental leading into insanity.

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    2. I agree with Monica, it seems like he is ushering him to insanity, just in the way that Usher was ushered into insanity (that's a mouthful).

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    3. Usher also means: a person or officer whose duty is to introduce someone to a stranger. This is relates to the story in that Roderick is introducing the Narrator to his sister or that he is introducing him to his house; but this would also suggest that his house is living.

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  27. Class- Poe brought up the paintings hanging on the wall, described as vivid. Do paintings give a hint into the lives and moods of the people living in the house?

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    1. I think they do because you will put up something in your house that you like/interests you and your interests reflects who you are as a person

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    2. I would think that the paintings almost definitely do reflect the people and mood of the story.

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    3. Monica- I totally agree with that. You can tell a lot about a person through the stuff that they own and their taste in artwork. Scary people don't buy happy, uplifting paintings and like wise with happy people.

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    4. I think because the house was so dark but the paintings were vivid, it could have been a symbol of another world outside of the House of Usher.

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    5. I think the artwork of these settings definitely shows the sense of darkness and solemness that comes across in the Gothic era. The paintings add an overall mood and feeling to the setting of the story.

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    6. Monica-I think that the paintings and artwork in a house gives a hint into those people's lives. I know that in my own home, we have many of my sister's art pieces up on the wall. This shows that we are proud of her artwork, and that we have many kids in our family (5). The pieces of artwork that you own shows a bit of what your life is like.

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    7. I think they do reflect the people that live there, you can tell a lot about a person by what surrounds them.

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  28. Class- Poe often uses the word(or version of the word) oppressed. What does the repetition of this word symbolize?

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    1. I think the insanity that Roderick and Madeline fell victim to oppressed their rational thought and drove them to insanity. Just like the Stanford Prison Experiment, the house is taking the characters' individualism and personal thought

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    2. I always felt like Usher was oppressed by people, or rather, he felt that he was impressed by people, into his house, and you know where that went to.

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  29. Class- the inner circle brought up a great discussion point, ones house reflects the current events going on in a families life. Take a minute to think about your house. If you are in a sport right now, you may find sports bags and equipment on the floor. Or if a family member has recently been sick, you will probably find clues as to prior experiences.

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    1. Monica-I agree completely. If you were to walk through my house, you would see toddler toys, soccer jerseys, painting supplies, volleyballs, and an overall messy exterior. I think that the House of Usher was exactly the same way. The experiences that were going on there were apparent in the way that the house was taken care of.

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    2. This is a great point! I know i fulfill both of these expectations, because before I cleaned up my room yesterday, my soccer bag was on the floor near my bed, with soccer socks in random corners, and since I have had a cold recently, there is medicine on my dresser, tissues in the trashcans, water glasses on my desk, ect. Our lives really can be seen through our houses. You could probably even tell if it is the school year or summer- books and papers will be in the rooms or in our houses if it is the school year, but I feel like many people avoid those reminders of school during the summer.

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    3. I agree with you, I play football right now and there are always pads or a jersey lying around.

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  30. Class- Madeline was shown in the story to have died from a sickness. At the end when she showed up behind the door, why was there blood on her shirt? Was this added to contribute to the tone of the story?

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    1. There was blood on her shirt because she struggled breaking out of her tomb. I think it adds to the dark feelings and maybe is a tribute to Rationalism.

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    2. I feel as if it just answers the tone of the rest of the story, since it really develops the idea of the real deadly manner. However, I feel as if the author implied that something may have happened between the lines, since there is always an "unknowingness" in all of the Dark Romantic times.

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    3. Colin- Good point, I think that this period of writing really just added to their stories to increase the vivid spook factor, just keeping death in mind.

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    4. I think that the blood showed Roderick's feelings about burying her prematurely. Also, I think Madeline's ghost was a manifestation of Roderick's fears and her coming out of the grave showed this.

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